FTP over SSH (aka SFTP / SCP)

wirtheye · 02-21-2005, 03:46 PM

I know there have been several posts about this. However I'd just like to iterate how much I'd like for this feature to be added to FlashFXP. Using a third party app to fill this feature gap isn't a very good option, mainly because of the added overhead to maintenance. In the previous posts on this forum that I found about FTP over SSH, I got some conflicting information. One of them said it wouldn't ever be implemented, another said that it will be added once the code is rewritten(!), and lots of things inbetween. It wasn't until after the fact that I realized some of the posts I read were in the archive section, and it appears this issue hasn't been addressed by a reliable source for 6+ months. Can someone inform me of the latest news regarding sftp support in FlashFXP?

Thank you.

Hetfield · 02-21-2005, 03:50 PM

This will be never implemented in FlashFXP, unless there will be a complete rewrite of the program.

MxxCon · 02-21-2005, 06:12 PM

and just fyi, FTP over SSH is NOT SFTP/SCP

SFTP is a subset of SSH protocol.

Linkster · 02-21-2005, 06:13 PM

Correct. This will not be implemented until the next major version (a complete rewrite)

wirtheye · 02-24-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MxxCon
and just fyi, FTP over SSH is NOT SFTP/SCP

Let's talk about this for a minute since you seem to post this comment in a lot of the other [older] threads.

SFTP is a pretty general term, and has been around for a long time, and unfortunately been used with different definitions. The initial SFTP implementation used SSH for the control channel, however the data channel was in cleartext via the FTP protocol. This was also refered to as Secure FTP. The term of FTP over SSH came from this implementation. Unfortunately for you, SFTP now refers to the current SSH FTP protocol, and has retained it's "FTP over SSH" moniker.

To look it more generally, it's still an FTP implementation in the SSH protocol [which you admit to below] so it's weird that you'd sit there and say it's not FTP over SSH because that's exactly what you're doing when you use SFTP.

Quote:

Originally posted by MxxCon
SFTP is a subset of SSH protocol.

I never said it wasn't part of the SSH protocol, so I don't know why you said that...

Quote:

This will be never implemented in FlashFXP

Quote:

This will not be implemented until the next major version

This is exactly the type of double talk that I was trying to avoid. So perhaps I'll rephrase my question for clarity. Are there plans to rewrite the code to implement SFTP? Is that rewrite currently underway?

Thank you.

Harm · 02-24-2005, 02:54 PM

There's no double talk here.

Quote:

This will be never implemented in FlashFXP, unless there will be a complete rewrite of the program.

is exactly the same as

Quote:

This will not be implemented until the next major version (a complete rewrite)

I'm no ssh expert but it looks like even if some people are using "FTP over SSH" to talk about SFTP, they are different ways of using ssh to transfer files.
http://www.vandyke.com/products/secu...transfers.html
http://forum.flashfxp.com/showthread...&threadid=1082

SFTP (the SSH File Transfer Protocol) and FTP are completely different protocols. That's why a complete rewrite of FlashFXP would be required to add SFTP support.
http://forum.flashfxp.com/showthread...&threadid=3818

Being a simple user, I can only tell you that it will be ready when it will be ready. I might be wrong but I don't think you'll get an ETA from the development team ; a complete rewrite will take some time.

PS: Please don't turn this into an argument, I'm only trying to clarify things before it does

wirtheye · 02-24-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Harm
There's no double talk here.

Yes there is, one of them said at the next major release it would be supported. The other said it would never be supported unless they rewrote the code. Obviously one of them thinks the code is currently being rewritten to support SFTP, while the other doesn't. Two very different views.

Quote:

SFTP (the SSH File Transfer Protocol) and FTP are completely different protocols. That's why a complete rewrite of FlashFXP would be required to add SFTP support.

I'm aware that they're seperate protocols, but maybe I didn't make that obvious enough.

I'm of the opinion that to add SFTP support would not require a complete rewrite....that's just verbage people have saying here to avoid answering the question of when it may / may not be supported. I think FlashFXP has a great base of code, and would hope they wouldn't have to throw it all away just to add support for SFTP.

Quote:

Being a simple user, I can only tell you that it will be ready when it will be ready. I might be wrong but I don't think you'll get an ETA from the development team ; a complete rewrite will take some time.

I don't see what's wrong with asking for input from a developer or from a FlashFXP employee. But you're right, maybe it's a company secret as to what new product features they will offer in the next release.

Quote:

PS: Please don't turn this into an argument, I'm only trying to clarify things before it does

I'm trying to be very cordial and at least present my opinion to what appear to be opinions of other users. Unfortunately that's all the other threads contained too. Sorry I didn't take a liking to the boilerplated answers of "never" or "whenever"

bigstar · 02-24-2005, 03:36 PM

Unfortunately due to the way FlashFXP was designed it's not possible to simply drop in a new protocol and support it. Everything from the ground up was specifically designed for the FTP protocol.

We are currently planning a re-write of FlashFXP, Our goal is to support SCP in the rewrite. Currently there is no time frame on when the re-write will be released.

chotaire · 03-12-2005, 08:09 AM

FTP over SSH can be accomplished by using SSH forwarding which is e.g. supported by the free client PuTTY. You can easily use PuTTY and FlashFXP together but keep in mind that this is very difficult with passive ftp connections because of random ports being in use. Active connections will work fine without much work.

If I am out of topic, forgive me ;-) I hope you were referring to FTP over SSH, not SFTP.

wirtheye · 03-14-2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chotaire
FTP over SSH can be accomplished by using SSH forwarding which is e.g. supported by the free client PuTTY. You can easily use PuTTY and FlashFXP together but keep in mind that this is very difficult with passive ftp connections because of random ports being in use. Active connections will work fine without much work.

I'm aware of this approach, however that's a lot of work for 3000+ clients. I was looking for a non-third party solution...but you obviously missed that part.

Quote:

Originally posted by chotaire
If I am out of topic, forgive me ;-) I hope you were referring to FTP over SSH, not SFTP.

Luckily this thread covers both which makes it hard to be off topic

Thanks for the response Bigstar.

holysin · 04-26-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wirtheye
I'm aware of this approach, however that's a lot of work for 3000+ clients. I was looking for a non-third party solution...but you obviously missed that part.

I'm in a similar boat, and found for my needs SecureFX works, they offer a 30 day trial for you to decide if they fit with your needs (it does sftp and ftp over ssh). My only complaint is it's not flashfxp, but I guess we have to wait for the code to be re-written. So i use FXP inside my personal network, and SecureFX everywhere else. (For my situation the putty port forwarding would not work at all.)

Cheers,
Ben

kasperh · 05-12-2005, 04:59 AM

I will also like to have SCP added in FlashFXP, it is the only thing we need IMHO.

navvywavvy · 05-20-2005, 01:04 PM

Flash FXP is without a doubt my favourite ftp program. Totally reliable, has never crashed on me. Never fails to catch and upload every file. Simple interface. Easy to use. I use it on all of my client's sites.

This morning I suddenly realized that I might be able to use it to connect to my own server, which uses SSH. Right now I'm using WinSCP which is ugly and clunky. Just about everyone I know outside of clients use SSH on their servers, and they all use WinSCP, too.

When I couldn't get SSH to work with FlashFXP, and when I finally found this thread, I was totally disappointed. I sure hope that they make it support SSH. Stay on top of the game and do it. More and more people are starting to realize that basic ftp is just not good enough.

Hetfield · 05-20-2005, 02:27 PM

Well you can still use FlashFXP if you use some tunneling software like bitwise tunnelier for example. Also, i don't see how you can be totally disappointed that a *ftp* program doesn't support a totally different protocol. But as Bigstar said, the rewrite of FlashFXP will have this protocol implemented

navvywavvy · 05-20-2005, 04:35 PM

"i don't see how you can be totally disappointed that a *ftp* program doesn't support a totally different protocol"

Fair enough

It just seems like what I'm currently using (WinSCP) is pretty much an ftp program - even though it doesn't use file transfer protocol - it does transfer files.

If you eat an apple or you eat an orange, you're still eating fruit.

Oh man. Way too semantic.